Home > Sticking to the way of the Salaf & hearing and obeying the Muslim rulers, Tawheed, Warning against innovations and the callers to innovations in Leicester, What is Dawa Salafiya? > Markaz Sunnah Leicester write to Masjid Umar regarding Sindhi`s slander against the Salafis and his distortion of the Salafi Dawah

Markaz Sunnah Leicester write to Masjid Umar regarding Sindhi`s slander against the Salafis and his distortion of the Salafi Dawah


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  1. Adam
    July 12, 2012 at 05:48

    Interesting. I the ahle salaf have been ill speaking about the 4 schools for many years and when a scholar of the 4 schools says something that they feel offends them they become all touchy. Instead of writing such a big letter all they need to say is present daleel and Trust me they will get the daleel they ask for.

    • July 15, 2012 at 07:47

      Assalaamu alaykum,

      Jazakallaahu khairan,

      I know many deobandis who have good manners when it comes to differing, but sadly it seems Muhammad Sindi is not amongst them.

      Would perhaps be a good idea, if not retraction and apology is forthcoming to either call a talk or series of talks with leaflets inviting people to attend being distributed outside masjid Umar whilst this issue is still fresh in their minds so they can come listen to the truth and decide for themselves,

      or else that Muhammad Sindi is openly challenged by some of the talibul ilm from Leicester and his bogus claims destroyed once and for all in front of all the people.

    • abu bintain
      July 18, 2012 at 12:32

      U say the salafis have been speaking ill of the 4 imams for years. Can u give some daleel for your statement? Because the 4 imams are part of the salaf as saleh.

      As for the scholar you mention what daleel did he bring? He just mentioned hearsay & stories.

      • abdullah
        September 13, 2012 at 15:11

        just listen to Abu Usamah talk about Imam Abu Hanifah where he openly slanders him!

      • September 13, 2012 at 15:29

        Can you post the link to the audio of this and indicate what part of the audio he slanders him?

    • Abu Hafs as-Salafi
      July 27, 2012 at 14:47

      ya akhi thats an ajeeb statement you made, the ‘ahle salaf’ are the first three generations mentioned by the messenger of Allah in an authentic hadeeth, before the 4 schools of thought – i assume you meant those who follow the salaf being ‘salafi’. And where have they spoken ill of the mathaahib, rather they have spoken the truth about them without being extreme or muta’assib. and you accuse the salafiyyoon of becoming ‘touchy’ – ya akh look who brought forth the daleel – it is the salafiyyoon and not the hanafiyyah deobandiyyah – and the likes of molana sindhi may Allaah guide him to the sunnah – who was speaking on pure emotion rather than daleel. and why have not masjid umar responded? clearly they are ignorant and they speak based on their desires rather than daleel. wallaahu musta’aan

  2. shen
    July 19, 2012 at 22:04

    more from zulfiqar trying to make himself feel important and relevant.

    • Abu Hafs as-Salafi
      July 27, 2012 at 14:50

      i’m sorry akhi i dont see the point you are try to make – zulfiker is not making himself feel important or relevant – from the letter we can see a just clarification of the salafee da’wah that was lied upon by molana sindi al-deobandi al-hanafi an-naqshabandi

      • Shen
        August 17, 2012 at 03:58

        actually how can zulfiker accuse the deobandi alim when he himself accused other “salafis”?

        Let me explain brother… Salafi madina students website – zulfiker abides by – had a refutation of birmingham madkhalee salafis accusing them of wrongly being a “voice” for all salafis. How then is it possible for zulfiker to deny that some “salafis” or ahl hadees from pakistan/india have said those things that the deobandi imam accused them of. It is shameful for zulfiker to claim there is concensus of opinion on what he has wriiten amongst the “salafi” ulema. Which salafis is he talking about… In this manner any allegation can be made and also refuted as you just say “this is not the beleifs of salafis” when clearly there are some salafis including their knowlegable schooars who do say those things.

        Dont blindly follow what zulfiker is saying. Open your ears and eyes and realise even in you jamaat there are various opinions, some of which deobandi imam pointed out.

  3. salafiya meaning we follow the quran and hadith understood by the prophet pbuh and his companions ra .
    August 31, 2012 at 00:14

    judge the people by the scriptures,not scholars.i say bring your books,deobandis bring fazale amal,shamame imdadiyah,beshti zevar and compare to quran and hadith,then judge for yoursef,bring original copies you will find out what tawheed iand shirk is,you deobandis always attack brelwis with shirk but your books are worse.denounce your books if you are muslims.

    • Shen
      September 1, 2012 at 04:35

      So which books will you bring? Ubayd jabiree or yahyaa hajoori books? What about ma’ribi or madkhalee? They all have books… U have birmingham salafis who hate each other and are only a few meters away. Leicester salafis the same, all with your own groups. So even if deobandi would ask u which group on haq you would all differ, some say rabee is imam and others say fawzee and others say abdul muhsin. Then you have scholar like suhaib hasan who zulfiqar likes but his own people disowned him after he supported his son said evil things about adam peace be upon him and talked about evolution. And also abu khadija in birmingham many of u salafis dont like yet he is your leader of a group of you in the uk.

      So tell us about which group of salafis u belong to. Dont bother with its a methodology therefore… As you all are groups splintered – that is a fact. At least admit it.

  4. salafiya meaning we follow the quran and hadith understood by the prophet pbuh and his companions ra .
    September 3, 2012 at 23:32

    get your facts right,zulfikar said shoeb hassan was wrong to defend his son. salafis may be weak in not uniting on issues ,anyway we salafis dont differ in aqeeda and tawheed.
    Molana ashraf thanvi says everything is god in his books are you going to turn a blind eye to that.

    • Shen
      September 4, 2012 at 00:52

      What you say is false because… One salafee groups refers to the other as deviated and vice versa. I.e. each group beleives the other is from the 72 sects destined for hellfire. So even if your tawheed and aqeedah could be the same you still refer to each other as misguided. Example is the surooris or ma’ribee followers who dislike rabee followers and vice versa. All claim to be upon tawheed and right aqeedah.

      Regarding what thanvi said, i seriously doubt the thousands of people in Leicester are upon that beleif, yet most of them need advising in a better way than just saying thanvi is a deviant or worse because he says this or that. The salafees are clearly upon misguidance as a group because each one thinks its the saved sect. Im not lying or making this up… Just go to any “salafee” website and see them eating each other up and being glad with what each of them is upon and happy with their own fanatical blind following.

      Like who needs to blind do taqlid of the hanafi madhab and its scholars when you can do taqleed of rabee’ or ma’ribee. Maybe you want to blindly follow ubayd jabiree or yahya in yemen… Anyone is better to blindly follow than the salaf right?

      Salafees are a joke. Honest truth when you look at your da’wah efforts – its all on your own websites in english and arabic. Be honest and tell me if this is not true?

  5. September 4, 2012 at 06:00

    Shen it seems you are confused just because salafi scholars fall into disagreement it does not mean the salaf dawah is not the haqq just as some of The scholars of The salaf had harsh words against Abu Hanifah it does not mean the manhaj of the salaf is not the haqq,Just look what sufyan at thawri said about abu hanifah:
    · حدثنا نعيم بن حماد قال حدثنا الفزاري قال كنت عند سفيان فنعى النعمان فقال الحمد لله كان ينقض الاسلام عروة ما ولد في الاسلام أشأم منه

    “Ibrahim ibn Muhammad Al-Fazari narrated to us: We were with Sufyan Ath-Thawri when we received the news of the death of Abu Hanifah, and he said: “Al-Hamdulillah, The One who relieved the Muslims from him, he was destroying the chains of Islam, one by one. None was born in Islam more ill-omened than him”[1]

    · حدثني أحمد بن محمد بن يحيى بن سعيد القطان، ثنا أبو نعيم، قال: كنا مع سفيان جلوسا في المسجد الحرام فأقبل أبو حنيفة يريده فلما رآه سفيان قال: «قوموا بنا لا يعدنا هذا بجربه»

    Once Sufyan at-Thawri (rah) was sitting, he saw Abu Hanifah coming and then he said to his Companions “ Get up, otherwise he would affect us with his itch (means Bid’ah) “[2]

    · – حدثني محمد بن عمرو بن عباس الباهلي، ثنا الأصمعي، قال: قال سفيان الثوري «ما ولد مولود بالكوفة أو في هذه الأمة أضر عليهم من أبي حنيفة»

    Sufyan at Thawri (rah) said “No one was born more evil in this Ummah and in Kufa more than Abu Hanifah”[3]

    · أخبرنا ابن رزق أخبرنا جعفر بن محمد بن نصير الخلدي حدثنا محمد بن عبد الله بن سليمان الحضرمي حدثنا أحمد بن الحسن الترمذي قال سمعت الفريابي يقول سمعت الثوري ينهى عن مجالسة أبي حنيفة وأصحاب الرأي

    Sufyan at Thawri (rah) used to forbid to sit in the Majlis of Abu Hanifah and the People of Opinion.[4]

    · أخبرنا أبو بكر أحمد بن علي بن عبد الله الزجاجي الطبري حدثنا أبو يعلى عبد الله بن مسلم الدباس حدثنا الحسين بن إسماعيل حدثنا أحمد بن محمد ابن يحيى بن سعيد حدثنا يحيى بن آدم حدثنا سفيان بن سعيد وشريك بن عبد الله والحسن بن صالح قالوا : أدركنا أبا حنيفة وما يعرف بشيء من الفقه وما نعرفه إلا بالخصومات

    Sufan at Thawri said about Abu Hanifa:He knew nothing of fiqh.[5]

    · أخبرنا أبو سعيد محمد بن موسى الصيرفي حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب الأصم حدثنا محمد بن علي الوراق حدثنا مسدد قال سمعت أبا عاصم يقول: ذكر عند سفيان موت أبي حنيفة فما سمعته يقول: رحمه الله ولا شيئاً ، قال: الحمد لله الذي عافانا مما ابتلاه

    Upon Abu Hanifa’s death Sufyan at Thawri did not say rahimaullah rather he said Alhumdulillah.[6]

    [1] Tarikh Shageer 2/97,this is from Nu’am bin Hammad who is Thiqah according to yahya bin maeen rahimaullah.His narrations are even present in Bukhari (3560,6652).This narration is authenticated by Shaykh Muqbil bin Hadi Al Wadee rahimaullah in Nasharus Saheefa pg 318-319

    [2] Kitab us Sunnah 291, First narrator is Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Yahya bin Saeed al Qattan he is Trustworthy (Tehzeeb al Tehzeeb 1/80), Second narrator is Abu Nuam student of Sufyan Suri and Siqa Muhaddis (Tehzeeb 8/275).

    [3] Kitab us Sunnah 278, Muhammad bin Umaro bin Abbas is Suduq (Taqreeb at Tehzeeb 1/738), Second narrator is Abdul Malik bin Karib al Asmi is Suduq (Taqreeb 1/618).

    [4] Tarikh Baghdad Vol.13 Pg 429, First narrator is رزق ابن and he is Abul Hasan Muhammad bin Ahmad and he is Trustworthy (Tarikh Baghdad 1/315), Second narrator is Jafar bin Muhammad and he is also trustworthy (Tarikh Baghdad 7/227), Third narrator is Muhammad bin Sulayman he is Siqqa (Tarikh e Islam 6/1032),Fourth narrator is Ahmad bin Hasan al Tirmidhi is also Siqqa (Tehzeeb al Tehzeeb 1/24), Fifth narrator is Muhammad bin Yusuf al Faryabi and he is Siqa Suduq declared by Abu Hatim (Al Jarrh Wa Tadeel 8/119), Sheikh Muqbil bin Hadi (rah) has authenticated in Nashar us Sahifa pg 351

    [5] Sheikh Muqbil authenticated in his Nashar us Sahifa pg351.

    [6] Sheikh Muqbil in his Nashar us Sahifa pg350

    So shen I think the differences are confusing you,and I would like to ask you if All our Salafi and salafi scholars are a Joke as you say, Name one scholar you consider to be guided on the haqq name your men pls just one

    Jafar

  6. Shen
    September 4, 2012 at 17:16

    It is well known that the salaf differed. But why do you ignore what i said about your salafi groups each declaring other deviant. Why distract others with these narrations – many of which have been established is being unauthentic or weak.

    Whatever you want to say about imam abu hanifa it doesnt hurt him, yet you ignore all the criticism of those scholars you actually follow. Like rabee hajuri jabiree maribee ali hasan qutb madina.com and salafitalk all have beef with each other and all label other deviant, astray or athe very least to be boycotted.

    So why you copy and paste stuff you have no knowledge of on abu hanifa when you dont even follow him and ignore the facts of those you actually follow from your own sect?

    The issue of abu hanifa is over for over thousand years and people may have differed, why do you want to cover all this again when there is no benefit in it. Thats why the real salafi scholars from later times like ibn taymiyyah, dhahabi, ibn kathir, ibn qayyim, ibn abi alizz alhanafi, and many others from the later times didnt make issue of abu hanifa and explained some of those narrations in a sensible non-bigoted way. Full of justice and respect. Unlike you jafar who wishes to belittle the salaf to protect you khalaf who you have take as your unquestionable leaders – making taqlid of rabee and his enemies from the salafi groups today – while saying no taqlid for imams of the salaf.

    Be just and fair – and dont copy and paste things you have little or no knowledge of.

    • September 4, 2012 at 23:06

      Shen I am not non ignoring it,The differing of some salafis is apparent but Just as The kuffar cant use the fact that the muslims are divided into 73 different sects and differ as as a proof that Islam is Not the Haqq and that its compulsory for them to enter into Islam ,Like wise we cannot use the fact that the salaf differed with regard to position of individuals as a proof that the manhaj of the salaf is deviated
      The differing of the salafis is known and is with regards to the correct position to take with individuals and organizations that have been criticized, you cannot use this differing as a proof that the salafi dawah is a deviant dawah ,that’s my point shen I hope you understand this and concede this point gracefully

      As for these narrations being weak then I have copied and pasted and updated the checking of these narrations and they are authentic

      As for accusing me of trying to belittle the salaf Then I will ask you shen did you split open my chest so you now what my intention was!!?

      The one who said This about Abu hanifah(rahimullah) was an Imam of the salaf sufyan at thawri (Rahimullah) not me and my point was to demonstrate that mere differing is not a proof that someones manhaj is deviated

      As for The other accusation That I blind follow Sheikh rabee or any other salafi Scholar or organization then my position is that I respect all the salafi scholars and I seek forgiveness for them all and I hold blind following of any scholar to be Haram.

      Shen you have struggled to identify from my blog what salafi “camp” I am in as this is a proof that i am not in any camp but i follow the manhaj of the salaf and i am salafi and the greatest challenge we have is making clear the straight path of tawheed and making clear to the muslims the deviated path of the astray groups such as the extreme sufis i.e the deobandis brelwis,also the ikwanis and takferis.Shen do accept that the deobandis and brewlis are deviated or will you try to protect them?

  7. shen
    September 5, 2012 at 04:45

    ok, with your 1st point i accept that differing itself cant be a proof of misguidance. and you also must know the often weak quoted narration regarding differing being a mercy. My view is this – how can the salafis claim to be on THE HAQ when you have one group who you quote from calling another group you quote from DEVILS and much worse. It is also a SIGN that the people of falsehood are always splitting and creating their own factions thinking each is on the truth. This i have heard from ‘salafi’ shaykhs. Look even if someone said to you “I want to now become a salafi and leave deobandism” which salafi group would he ‘join’? and i know you will say its not membership, joining, pledge of alligience etc etc. its a methodolgy and.understnading of the salaf. But be honest, when one group is saying the other is deviated and you have one shaykh saying the other is calling to the gates of hellfire – and the links to the websites are famous – “salafiyyah” especially in the west is in chaos. For example a salafi when to study with hajuri in yemen then came back and parrotted the views of hajuri, would the jabiree and rabee followers call him salafi – and would he call them salafi or deviant? im not saying the ‘salafis’ are deviant – the so called salafis are doing it themselves. you can see this yourself. The question is which orientation of salafis are this website affiliated too?

    those narrations are authentic according to whom? i myself have seen a reply from a salafi follower student i beleive who has written a reply to the extremist ahlul hadeeth movement who were spreading such narrations and were building it upon the reliance of a narrator who carried many of sufyanan at thawrees words. It was a good article and not biased although not related directly to these narration authenticity, i recommend you google it. i think the authors name was moin .abdullah? – not sure though. the simple fact which is even acknowledged by (so called major/kibar) scholars in saudi arabia is that narrations from the salaf in particular things which are contextual or need deeper insight require a broader learning which a basic layman cant just pick up and act on, as there are several factors which he might not appreciate or realise – such as context, meaning, authenticity, background of circumstances at time, personal rivalries, other contradicting evidances, etc.

    so in this case dont you think its wiser for someone like yourself to follow in the footsteps of great researching scholars like al-dhahabi and ibn taymiyyah regarding imam abu hanifa and take their positions which they outlined and gave after much deliberation on such narrations judging it from many angles not just face value of a narration or two? they are the type of scholars that would research the issue and look at it from an unbased perspective. from later times you have many staunch hanafis making an adequete ‘defence’ but the reason i point you to ibn taymiyyah is that i think we both agree he was unbiased and great researcher and shaykh ul islam. plus his situation is more closer to ours in terms of time and circumstances of weakness in the ummah. seriously, read ibn taymiyyah or al-dhahabi on abu hanifa for a balanced aproach.

    also even if the criticism were valid, where will it end. as many a great imam had criticism – as you may know even the great imam bukhari was not spared from harsh criticsm. not all criticism is valid and not all is relevant to us in our time. we should respect all those salf who are better than us countless times.

    copy and pasting things like this on a the great imam serve no benefit and to be blunt, looks like your causing fitnah especially for those who love the imam from the salaf and one who has been praised by the salaf as well. one who has many followers and is admired from the muslims across the world. there seems no wisdom at all in spreading such things now amongst the masses, except maybe to cause a stir of emotion and get attention and make people look at you. The saudi ulema who i respect even removed a section of these type of narrations from a book from abdullah ibn ahmad ibn hanbal for greater benefit and wisdom. this was confirmed even by saudi scholars.

    so tell me lving in leicester do you think spreading these things is a good thing amongst the muslim people, who mostly love the imam despite maybe not knowing his details? what would you achieve except sedition and hatered? is this the way to call people to tawheed as you say? is this the way prophet peace be upon him called people? he called them to tawheed and had the best of manners. and even after his message was accepted and the conquest of makkah was complete, he peace be upon him would have preferred to rebuild ka’bah upon its original foundations but refused as there were many new muslims and they might think badly about that action. this is authentic and shows the type of wisdom and care he had for the people. he would call them to the truth, and Tawheed but with wisdom and the best of manners. now, compare this to reckless copy and pasting at best DOUBTFUL narration and controversial hate inciting narrations amongst the masses, that will bring far GREATER HARM than any small benefit. Tell me if your call to this type of salafiyyah is HAQ?

    with regards your question relating to groups of deobandi and brelwi, i will say all these groups today have truth and falsehood, some are closer to the truth than others. some differances are just linguistic differance, others are real and fundamental differances, others differances are in aubsidary issues. i respect ulema from many groups and respect their knowledge. i dont see many methodologies that follow the exact way of the salaf but many try and they all have their own paths. ahlus sunnah wal jamah is not limited to only one group, but is made of individuals from many groups. the deobandi group is much closer to the truth than brelwi and also many salafee groups. the salafee groups mainly theory and talking, but little ibadah in THE MANHAJ OF SALAF. you jaffar fir example would not quote the narrations which are plentiful on imams at thawri and abu hanifa in their great IBADAH and their servitude towards Allah and his religion.

  8. September 5, 2012 at 22:14

    The the salafi manhaj is the haqq without any doubt as for the differing of the salafis we have already agreed this does not prove anything.

    If somebody said to me that wanted to leave deobandism and become salafi and which salafi group do I join? I would say yes leave that sufism that could lead you to becoming immersed in bidah and possibly becoming a Musrik and you dont have to join any salafi group just follow the principles of the salafi manhaj and you will be safe insha Allaah

    As for your statement “the deobandi group is much closer to the truth than brelwi and also many salafee groups”

    Then This statement is at the peak of falsehood how can the deobandis be closer to the truth than any salafi when the deobandis see it permissibles to supplicate to Allah using the messenger as a medium which is major shirk and i have demonstrated this on this blog with the fatawa that have been issued by darul iftaa deoband. The deobandis are ashari and maaturidi in aqeedah and they do false interpretation of Allaah`s sifaat such as his speech,hands eyes,shins his descent, his uloow(being above his throne).How do you compare the criminals who call to shirk and deny the sifaat of Allaah with the people of tawheed? The deobandis are from the deviated sects something that is agreed by all salafi scholars and nobody would put them amongst Ahlu sunnah (the saved sect) except one who is ignorant.

    I

  9. salafiya meaning we follow the quran and hadith understood by the prophet pbuh and his companions ra .
    September 13, 2012 at 18:38

    shen i ask you not to follow a salafi group,follow quran and sunnah and rightly guided companions ra. in your deobandi books there is major shirk written in many places,so why would you still praise the deobandi scholars. where Allaah swt says in quran to mohammed saw that if you did shirk then every deed will be void.
    your scholars believe sufi ibn arabi was a saint who said gods presence is in everything.Sufi mansoor hallaj said he is god.the problem is you follow emotions where we follow facts.the four imams had the same aqeeda of the salaf.where deobandis dont follow the aqeeda of imam abu hanifa ra ,watch fazal e amal ki haqeekat by tauseef ur rehman full video on youtube.by the way arrogance has come into some salafis,it all blew out when albani uthmaeen and bin baz rehmullah died.everyone had there own agenda,but i tell you dont get stuck in this mess,stick to main scholars.brother if a book had one word of shirk in it you should not take from it where deobandi books are full of shirk,may be your scholars were free from this,but why are you pulling yourself and your families into hell forever by following these books.Allah swt says dont follow your forefathers follow quran and hadith,the best of stories are in quran.quran. read it and understand it.
    i was born into sufism real not fake and did it and when i opened quran tried to understand it with sunnah Allaah guided me and i was labelled wahabi.
    the lay man says i dont believe in all this shirk,but remember you will be brought up with your scholars on the day of judgement,100 years ago most people were uneducated they thought this was islam what sufis said.but now a days we have no excuse all the evidence is in front of us.im sure if you can become a doctor,engineer etc you can find facts from quran and hadith.
    Allah knows best. assalam u alaikum.

  10. abdullah
    September 15, 2012 at 12:00

    asalafiyaleicester :
    Can you post the link to the audio of this and indicate what part of the audio he slanders him?

    youtube
    video title: Life of Imam Abu Hanifah
    channel : RedBrickMedia channel

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